Many of President Trump’s policies have brought changes to the international order that will last long after his second term ends.
On this episode of “The Opinions,” the columnist Lydia Polgreen speaks with the political scientist Rahmane Idrissa and the “Sinica Podcast” host Kaiser Kuo about how the United States and China view global leadership and what their evolving positions mean for smaller nations.
Below is a transcript of an episode of “The Opinions.” We recommend listening to it in its original form for the full effect. You can do so using the player above or on the NYTimes app, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
The transcript has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Lydia Polgreen: I’m Lydia Polgreen, a columnist for New York Times Opinion. The global order that’s been in place since World War II is falling apart, and no one knows exactly what will replace it. The United States has been stepping away from its role as a leader, while China has emerged, in many ways, as a peer power.
Archival clip from CBS News: Not content to wait at the White House, President Trump choppered to Joint Base Andrews this afternoon to greet Chinese President Xi Jinping. It’s the first time a U.S. president has made that gesture for a foreign head of state since 1962.
As part of Opinion’s “New World Disorder” series, I wanted to have a conversation about what all this means for the rest of the world, especially middle powers — countries like Canada, South Africa and Brazil.
